Actuarial Outpost
 
Go Back   Actuarial Outpost > Actuarial Discussion Forum > Careers - Employment
FlashChat Actuarial Discussion Preliminary Exams CAS/SOA Exams Cyberchat Around the World Suggestions


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #41  
Old 02-15-2019, 03:46 PM
MightySchoop's Avatar
MightySchoop MightySchoop is offline
Member
CAS AAA
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: under a rock
Favorite beer: Rolling Rock
Posts: 7,338
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helena Lake View Post
I wasn't. Why were you happy? It would be incredibly beneficial to exam-takers if the exams through ASA were common, and only the Fellowship level diverged to specialty. Additionally, from a methodological standpoint, Health is a lot more like P&C than it is like Life or Pension. I ended up in Health, mostly because by the time I had enough knowledge to know what I do and don't like about this field, I had passed enough exams that I didn't want to back-track to jump into CAS. I really think I would have liked P&C better.
http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actu...d.php?t=335431

Link to one of several threads on the potential merger.

Quick summary:
Many CAS members see the SOA's attempted move into P&C as a hostile takeover attempt, and it has left a bad taste and distrust for SOA leadership, even though the SOA leadership has changed.

The drift apart in preliminary exam requirements is largely seen as the SOA's doing, and is viewed as evidence that the SOA is an untrustworthy partner. Returning to joint preliminaries without a merger was presented as "not gonna happen."

The proposal was so vague as to, well, everything that it was seen as a huge risk with little upside to current P&C actuaries.
__________________
Dare to believe you can survive
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 02-15-2019, 03:50 PM
Helena Lake's Avatar
Helena Lake Helena Lake is offline
Member
SOA AAA
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Studying for Nothing ever again!
Favorite beer: Bourbon
Posts: 8,690
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MightySchoop View Post
http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actu...d.php?t=335431

Link to one of several threads on the potential merger.

Quick summary:
Many CAS members see the SOA's attempted move into P&C as a hostile takeover attempt, and it has left a bad taste and distrust for SOA leadership, even though the SOA leadership has changed.

The drift apart in preliminary exam requirements is largely seen as the SOA's doing, and is viewed as evidence that the SOA is an untrustworthy partner. Returning to joint preliminaries without a merger was presented as "not gonna happen."

The proposal was so vague as to, well, everything that it was seen as a huge risk with little upside to current P&C actuaries.
I can't believe I'm saying this (mostly) unironically but... Won't somebody think of the children?

I'm well past exams, so at the end of the day, I don't really care all that much. But for exam takers, it seems like it would be massive benefit for all of them, and an unnecessary divide at present.
__________________
I'm the appropriate amount of terrified
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 02-15-2019, 03:58 PM
extrovertedactuary extrovertedactuary is online now
Member
CAS SOA
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: West of Nowhere
College: State
Posts: 1,340
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helena Lake View Post
I wasn't. Why were you happy? It would be incredibly beneficial to exam-takers if the exams through ASA were common, and only the Fellowship level diverged to specialty. Additionally, from a methodological standpoint, Health is a lot more like P&C than it is like Life or Pension. I ended up in Health, mostly because by the time I had enough knowledge to know what I do and don't like about this field, I had passed enough exams that I didn't want to back-track to jump into CAS. I really think I would have liked P&C better.
What MighySchoop said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MightySchoop View Post
http://www.actuarialoutpost.com/actu...d.php?t=335431

Link to one of several threads on the potential merger.

Quick summary:
Many CAS members see the SOA's attempted move into P&C as a hostile takeover attempt, and it has left a bad taste and distrust for SOA leadership, even though the SOA leadership has changed.

The drift apart in preliminary exam requirements is largely seen as the SOA's doing, and is viewed as evidence that the SOA is an untrustworthy partner. Returning to joint preliminaries without a merger was presented as "not gonna happen."

The proposal was so vague as to, well, everything that it was seen as a huge risk with little upside to current P&C actuaries.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 02-15-2019, 04:02 PM
extrovertedactuary extrovertedactuary is online now
Member
CAS SOA
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: West of Nowhere
College: State
Posts: 1,340
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helena Lake View Post
I can't believe I'm saying this (mostly) unironically but... Won't somebody think of the children?

I'm well past exams, so at the end of the day, I don't really care all that much. But for exam takers, it seems like it would be massive benefit for all of them, and an unnecessary divide at present.
I feel like this is the same thing the teachers union says when they are negotiating pay and benefits.

A lot of CAS members view the FCAS credential as superior to the FSA credential and think a merger would allow holders of the FSA to claim the same value in the future. If accepted, this would surely have a detrimental effect on CAS members.

There's a reason the poll results in another thread were what they were. FSA's wanted to merge at fairly high rates and FCAS's did not. I think that tells the story that the FSA's see something to gain, whereas the FCAS's see something to lose.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 02-15-2019, 05:01 PM
Chaos Theory Chaos Theory is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 336
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MightySchoop View Post
The drift apart in preliminary exam requirements is largely seen as the SOA's doing, and is viewed as evidence that the SOA is an untrustworthy partner. Returning to joint preliminaries without a merger was presented as "not gonna happen."
I'm still curious about this. Why is it so difficult for SoA and CAS to start co-administer the exams again?
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 02-15-2019, 05:26 PM
Westley Westley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 30,569
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helena Lake View Post
I can't believe I'm saying this (mostly) unironically but... Won't somebody think of the children?

I'm well past exams, so at the end of the day, I don't really care all that much. But for exam takers, it seems like it would be massive benefit for all of them, and an unnecessary divide at present.
Would suggest this is either a very ignorant view, or one based on a very skewed view of the SOA leadership. If that's not an issue you're familiar with, would suggest reading the linked thread.

Hard for me to see how it's a "massive benefit" for "all" exam takers, since the ones that are currently on the CAS track will not be involved with the very shady people that have been running SOA in the past; and while I can't say that the people currently running the SOA, nor those who will run in the future, are equally shady, I also can't say that I've had any SOA members that can explain to me why I shouldn't expect current/future leadership to be as shady as the past. Not being involved with the SOA and their leadership is the "massive benefit" that most of us are looking for, and that includes many exam-takers.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 02-15-2019, 05:28 PM
Westley Westley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 30,569
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos Theory View Post
I'm still curious about this. Why is it so difficult for SoA and CAS to start co-administer the exams again?
If you're on the CAS side, it's because the SOA refuses to do so (absent merger).

If you're on the SOA side, I honestly don't know other than the desire to continue to have a perceived threat against the CAS to try to pressure a merger; that may be the only reason, or not, but nobody's ever explained another to me when I've asked.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 02-15-2019, 05:39 PM
Helena Lake's Avatar
Helena Lake Helena Lake is offline
Member
SOA AAA
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Studying for Nothing ever again!
Favorite beer: Bourbon
Posts: 8,690
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by extrovertedactuary View Post
I feel like this is the same thing the teachers union says when they are negotiating pay and benefits.

A lot of CAS members view the FCAS credential as superior to the FSA credential and think a merger would allow holders of the FSA to claim the same value in the future. If accepted, this would surely have a detrimental effect on CAS members.

There's a reason the poll results in another thread were what they were. FSA's wanted to merge at fairly high rates and FCAS's did not. I think that tells the story that the FSA's see something to gain, whereas the FCAS's see something to lose.
That may very well be. If nothing else, I'd guess that a really large chunk of the Health actuaries would have something to gain. You know, like methodologies that deal with short-term, periodic incidents... nothing important or anything.

Maybe we can convince the CAS to take all of us SOA Health Actuaries instead of just merging?
__________________
I'm the appropriate amount of terrified
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 02-15-2019, 05:42 PM
Helena Lake's Avatar
Helena Lake Helena Lake is offline
Member
SOA AAA
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Studying for Nothing ever again!
Favorite beer: Bourbon
Posts: 8,690
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley View Post
Would suggest this is either a very ignorant view, or one based on a very skewed view of the SOA leadership. If that's not an issue you're familiar with, would suggest reading the linked thread.

Hard for me to see how it's a "massive benefit" for "all" exam takers, since the ones that are currently on the CAS track will not be involved with the very shady people that have been running SOA in the past; and while I can't say that the people currently running the SOA, nor those who will run in the future, are equally shady, I also can't say that I've had any SOA members that can explain to me why I shouldn't expect current/future leadership to be as shady as the past. Not being involved with the SOA and their leadership is the "massive benefit" that most of us are looking for, and that includes many exam-takers.
I'll read the thread at some point. I don't have any idea about shady dealings in the SOA.

I'm not particularly involved with SOA leadership. I don't even know who's in charge, and I really don't care all that much. Maybe that makes me a bad actuary, but ah well. I don't really have that kind of loyalty to the organization that made my life a miserable hell for many years as I slogged my way through exams.
__________________
I'm the appropriate amount of terrified
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 02-15-2019, 08:48 PM
extrovertedactuary extrovertedactuary is online now
Member
CAS SOA
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: West of Nowhere
College: State
Posts: 1,340
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helena Lake View Post
That may very well be. If nothing else, I'd guess that a really large chunk of the Health actuaries would have something to gain. You know, like methodologies that deal with short-term, periodic incidents... nothing important or anything.

Maybe we can convince the CAS to take all of us SOA Health Actuaries instead of just merging?
If single payer does eliminate the demand for health actuaries, I could see many being hired into P&C positions. The CAS hiring managers should make them take a couple CAS exams though!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
*PLEASE NOTE: Posts are not checked for accuracy, and do not
represent the views of the Actuarial Outpost or its sponsors.
Page generated in 0.38151 seconds with 9 queries