Actuarial Outpost
 
Go Back   Actuarial Outpost > Actuarial Discussion Forum > General Actuarial
FlashChat Actuarial Discussion Preliminary Exams CAS/SOA Exams Cyberchat Around the World Suggestions

Browse Open Actuarial Jobs

Life  Health  Casualty  Pension  Entry Level  All Jobs  Salaries


General Actuarial Non-Specific Actuarial Topics - Before posting a thread, please browse over our other sections to see if there is a better fit, such as Careers - Employment, Actuarial Science Universities Forum or any of our other 100+ forums.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 12-27-2018, 09:59 AM
almost_there almost_there is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 328
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsanders33 View Post
I wouldn't worry about it too much. As a student, just focus on preparing as much as you can, so hopefully you're not on the borderline where subjective decisions of the graders determine if you pass or fail.

Students who don't pass will always complain about the graders (and the exam questions), just like fans of a losing sports team will always complain about the refs.
That's nonsense. Actuary exams are very expensive compared to comparable professions e.g. accountancy, statistician and so on and require far more studying over many months. The standard of marking should be commensurate with that.

I think bsanders33 is keen to maintain the false meme that anyone who complains must be some rogue student, some bitter exam failure. This kind of backward thinking does not advance the profession in any way at all, quite the opposite.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-27-2018, 10:09 AM
PeppermintPatty's Avatar
PeppermintPatty PeppermintPatty is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 42,121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by therealsylvos View Post
Just curious, what happens if the graders can't agree with each other to reconcile? What's the procedure? Is there some higher authority?

I ask because I see plenty of questions in examiners reports where they say they took off points for some inane reason, (like not explicitly saying a retro plan is balanced even though the question itself stated it) and can't see myself ever giving in if I was a grader and agreeing to dock points for that.
In theory, I suppose they could ask the exam chair (the chair and vice chair of their exam, and of the spring/fall exams, and the VP admissions are all physically present at the grading meetings) but in practice, the one who cares more or is more persuasive wins.

They do start with a rubric created by the item-writer, and are supposed to discuss their final grading rubric with the authorities for the exam. But I personally think this is a weak point of the process. I believe that the grades are completely "fair" from candidate to candidate to the greatest extent humanly possible. But I'm not so convinced the grading is always "right". That IS why they publish the examiners' report and allow candidates (and others) to contest the grading rubric, which is usually pretty evident (at least in its broad strokes) in the report. I know of many cases where the CAS gave additional credit as a result of someone contesting the grading. (I even know an individual who passed as a result of someone else contesting the grading.)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-27-2018, 10:12 AM
PeppermintPatty's Avatar
PeppermintPatty PeppermintPatty is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 42,121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsanders33 View Post
I wouldn't worry about it too much. As a student, just focus on preparing as much as you can, so hopefully you're not on the borderline where subjective decisions of the graders determine if you pass or fail.

Students who don't pass will always complain about the graders (and the exam questions), just like fans of a losing sports team will always complain about the refs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by almost_there View Post
That's nonsense. Actuary exams are very expensive compared to comparable professions e.g. accountancy, statistician and so on and require far more studying over many months. The standard of marking should be commensurate with that.

I think bsanders33 is keen to maintain the false meme that anyone who complains must be some rogue student, some bitter exam failure. This kind of backward thinking does not advance the profession in any way at all, quite the opposite.
Naw, I think both can be true. As a candidate, your best strategy is to be prepared enough that minor grading issues don't affect you. That doesn't mean it's not valuable to point out grading issues to the CAS (or other actuarial society.) I recommend you do both.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-27-2018, 10:14 AM
almost_there almost_there is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 328
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeppermintPatty View Post
Naw, I think both can be true. As a candidate, your best strategy is to be prepared enough that minor grading issues don't affect you.
They're not minor grading issues, see the link I posted. One guy has suffered from it in 5 consecutive sittings. There's no use telling people oh just study harder to overcome a flawed marking process. This just makes the system to be a lottery and makes the profession look a joke.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-27-2018, 10:22 AM
PeppermintPatty's Avatar
PeppermintPatty PeppermintPatty is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 42,121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by almost_there View Post
They're not minor grading issues, see the link I posted. One guy has suffered from it in 5 consecutive sittings. There's no use telling people oh just study harder to overcome a flawed marking process. This just makes the system to be a lottery and makes the profession look a joke.
I read the link, but can't follow what's going on. It might be relevant that the little grid posted midway through is too small to read, and when I click on it, it says "you need to be logged in to do that". So there's information I can't read.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-27-2018, 10:25 AM
almost_there almost_there is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 328
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeppermintPatty View Post
I read the link, but can't follow what's going on. It might be relevant that the little grid posted midway through is too small to read, and when I click on it, it says "you need to be logged in to do that". So there's information I can't read.
You're right, well that seems a bit fishy to me. Essentially he/she has had marker 1 & 2 more than 10 marks out from each other 4 out of the last 5 times, the other time being 9.5. As IFoA have claimed only 10% of the scripts are more than 10 marks out then I'll leave actuaries to calculate the probability of this happening to him/her. Just as worrying is that in his/her latest attempt, he didn't attempt one question at all yet a marker gave him 2 marks, the other zero.

Last edited by almost_there; 12-27-2018 at 10:30 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-27-2018, 10:31 AM
PeppermintPatty's Avatar
PeppermintPatty PeppermintPatty is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 42,121
Default

Do two people mark the entire exam?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-27-2018, 10:33 AM
almost_there almost_there is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 328
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeppermintPatty View Post
Do two people mark the entire exam?
Yes, independently.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-27-2018, 10:44 AM
The_Polymath The_Polymath is offline
Member
CAS SOA
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,157
Default

I do find it odd that markers had issues like that marking an upper-level Pensions script.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-27-2018, 02:11 PM
therealsylvos's Avatar
therealsylvos therealsylvos is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 17,653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeppermintPatty View Post
I read the link, but can't follow what's going on. It might be relevant that the little grid posted midway through is too small to read, and when I click on it, it says "you need to be logged in to do that". So there's information I can't read.
I had the same issue, so I signed up for an account.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ao fan View Post
i like laying in the tube and pretending that i'm dead.

Last edited by therealsylvos; 12-27-2018 at 02:58 PM.. Reason: Rehosted image
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
complaints, ifoa, issues, marking

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
*PLEASE NOTE: Posts are not checked for accuracy, and do not
represent the views of the Actuarial Outpost or its sponsors.
Page generated in 0.23734 seconds with 10 queries