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  #21  
Old 12-08-2019, 11:52 AM
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as an aside, final reviews for a division sometimes end up on a curve. Not everyone should be a five even if all great.

The higher rating you give him (if unjustified) could actually hurt you

and I would hope the actual write up would matter more than your arbitrary score
What's a five, and what do you mean by curves and scores?
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  #22  
Old 12-08-2019, 12:45 PM
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What's a five, and what do you mean by curves and scores?
five is what I am assuming was a top rating

and by curve I know of Execs who will not accept all employees being high ranked and insist on a curve to the median. Which makes no sense as the 1s and even 2s should not be long employed
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  #23  
Old 12-08-2019, 12:49 PM
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and by curve I know of Execs who will not accept all employees being high ranked and insist on a curve to the median. Which makes no sense as the 1s and even 2s should not be long employed
This usually comes from the old GE model of rank and yank - basically the view was that, it doesn't matter how good your people are, you should be getting rid of the worst of them. I think it actually makes sense in some contexts, but not in actuarial or most corporate roles.
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  #24  
Old 12-08-2019, 12:56 PM
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five is what I am assuming was a top rating

and by curve I know of Execs who will not accept all employees being high ranked and insist on a curve to the median. Which makes no sense as the 1s and even 2s should not be long employed
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This usually comes from the old GE model of rank and yank - basically the view was that, it doesn't matter how good your people are, you should be getting rid of the worst of them. I think it actually makes sense in some contexts, but not in actuarial or most corporate roles.
Yeah I think I read about that somewhere, where really big companies like Enron would rank their employees.
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  #25  
Old 12-08-2019, 01:05 PM
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Yeah I think I read about that somewhere, where really big companies like Enron would rank their employees.
Pretty much every company I've ever worked for or heard of ranks their employees.

How the rankings work and how they are used are very different by company of course.
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  #26  
Old 12-09-2019, 09:37 AM
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To answer the OP:

I would give constructive feedback . . . both formally and informally. Give the negatives to the supervisor directly so they're aware of how to interpret the more "PC" formal feedback.

And I would imagine that the supervisor appreciates having more evidence of the need for "intervention" in getting the process.



As for the rating, you do no one any favors by factoring in elements that are outside of your purview in giving the rating. The results of Project B are 1/5 (or make it more emphatic with a 0/5). You're giving feedback on *your* interactions, not your assessment of the employee overall (this latter is the job of the supervisor, don't do their job for them).
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  #27  
Old 12-09-2019, 10:21 AM
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I quickly realize that he just sent me back the same query I sent him a couple weeks earlier, and it would not be much help.
Ha
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  #28  
Old 12-09-2019, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Westley View Post
This usually comes from the old GE model of rank and yank - basically the view was that, it doesn't matter how good your people are, you should be getting rid of the worst of them. I think it actually makes sense in some contexts, but not in actuarial or most corporate roles.
It's a terrible idea when applied across the board. It would say that if there are only 10 people in the world who can do a job, and you employ all of them, you should still get rid of one of them. It ignores the cost of hiring a new individual, the uncertainty of the quality of said new individual, and the disruption to the remaining workers.

I would be very interested to know if GE, or any other company that follows this approach, dismissed the worst 10% of its board members annually.
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  #29  
Old 12-09-2019, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Werewolf View Post
It's a terrible idea when applied across the board. It would say that if there are only 10 people in the world who can do a job, and you employ all of them, you should still get rid of one of them. It ignores the cost of hiring a new individual, the uncertainty of the quality of said new individual, and the disruption to the remaining workers.

I would be very interested to know if GE, or any other company that follows this approach, dismissed the worst 10% of its board members annually.


Layoffs don't affect the executive class, they affect the people they see as disposable resources below them. Remember, if they actually cared about the people, they would take a cut out of their bonus, not let people go.
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  #30  
Old 12-09-2019, 05:17 PM
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I brought it up with my manager. Said something like "There was project B where he didn't really do anything and I haven't really worked with him much besides that this year" I mentioned the point about him actually adding negative value because if he wasn't there I would have known I had both projects.

"Well you could put something about improving time management on projects" "The ratings go to HR, but the comments don't unless I include them." I was thinking she is just giving me the PC answer and I'm still not going to know WTF to do.

Then she said "Ya that's kind of been a common theme with him on a lot of projects" and "I'm gonna have to have a tough conversation". So it sounds like the overall review will be bad regardless, and my feedback will only help.

When we started this guy told me he got to the point in his last (internal) job where he could do it in his sleep. In this role I've literally seen him asleep at the desk regularly(at least once to the point of snoring)
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