Actuarial Outpost
 
Go Back   Actuarial Outpost > Actuarial Discussion Forum > General Actuarial
FlashChat Actuarial Discussion Preliminary Exams CAS/SOA Exams Cyberchat Around the World Suggestions

DW Simpson International Actuarial Jobs
Canada  Asia  Australia  Bermuda  Latin America  Europe


General Actuarial Non-Specific Actuarial Topics - Before posting a thread, please browse over our other sections to see if there is a better fit, such as Careers - Employment, Actuarial Science Universities Forum or any of our other 100+ forums.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-18-2004, 12:41 PM
spotted cow's Avatar
spotted cow spotted cow is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Down on the farm
Posts: 147
Default Hypothetical actuarial outsourcing question

Hi all,

I think everyone is aware of technical work (programming, engineering) being sent to China and India. I am told that little to none of this is happening in the actuarial field, mainly because there are few qualified actuaries in China and India.

So, for sake of arguement, let's say all of a sudden China and India become loaded with actuaries who work for 10-20% of what an actuary would make in the U.S.. Would actuarial work go over there in droves, or are their barriers that would keep it here, such as government regulations, confidentiality of data, or just plain communication issues.

I know there isn't just one right answer, so I'm looking for everyone's opinion. I'm currently not in the field, so I don't have a feel for this.

Thanks,

SC
__________________
If you keep doing what you have always done, you will get what you always got.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-18-2004, 12:49 PM
Westley Westley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 27,664
Default

Try searching on "actuarial Outsourcing". There are plenty of threads already.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-18-2004, 01:16 PM
spotted cow's Avatar
spotted cow spotted cow is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Down on the farm
Posts: 147
Default

Westley,

This question is different than anything I have seen posted, which usually consit of whether acturial outcourcing is or isn't occurring.

I'm curious to know if China and India had a ton of actuaries (which they don't yet), how hard or likely would it be that work would go there?

Any opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

SC
__________________
If you keep doing what you have always done, you will get what you always got.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-18-2004, 01:29 PM
Elisha's Avatar
Elisha Elisha is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Favorite beer: Guiness or another quality Micro/Import
Posts: 4,785
Default

Spotted cow, I don't think you're looking hard enough. This is discussed in those threads. The short answer: no, won't happen.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-18-2004, 01:32 PM
DW Simpson DW Simpson is offline
Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
College: Yes
Posts: 18,626
Default

So many new actuarial jobs are turning up in these additional countries, jobs that we are working on, that I personally can't keep up with them. When I started here in 1999, we had 3 jobs pages, devoted to SOA, CAS and Entry jobs. We've tripled that, just so that I can push as many of them out on the web as I can and keep them updated and manageable. Yeah, outsourcing is happening, companies are hiring entry staff in India and China. So what? There are also a boatload of new jobs and companies being formed. Business opportunity isn't a finite, limited resource. It isn't something to be held in your hand in the hopes that someone won't take it away from you.

Actuarial work that is outsourced will be replaced, and is being replaced, with higher level types of actuarial work that is more difficult to outsource.

Micro threats to the profession are far more consequential than these macro threats. Your time is better spent understanding these micro threats and opportunities, and they're talked about every day on this board.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-18-2004, 02:14 PM
spotted cow's Avatar
spotted cow spotted cow is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Down on the farm
Posts: 147
Default

Elisha,

It is happening right now, to a very small degree. I agree with the Webmaster that although it's occuring, it's not an issue for those in the field for the reasons he lists.

I suppose if you don't see it happening in your field, you don't think about it. Outsourcing isn't a problem until it happens to you and your career.

Anyone else have an opinion on the hypothetical question?

The reason I'm asking is that I know the number of students in the actuarial field in India is growing quickly (percentage-wise). From 1956 to 1989, the actuarial field in India was non-existant. Since reforms in 1989, it has started to grow.

China is not yet emerging in the field as much as India.

If I own an insurance company and I could hire actuaries in India for $15,000 and layoff my U.S. actuaries making $100,000 why wouldn't I do this? I'm sure there are good reasons, but I have yet to see anyone give them to me.
__________________
If you keep doing what you have always done, you will get what you always got.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-18-2004, 02:33 PM
PAC PAC is offline
Member
CAS AAA
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 246
Default

It seems unlikely that senior positions involving corporate strategy and specific market knowledge would be replaced for pennies on the dollar.

No doubt that lower-level number-crunching positions could be at risk.

Of course, any changes easily implemented could also be easily undone...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-18-2004, 02:34 PM
Westley Westley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 27,664
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spotted cow
If I own an insurance company and I could hire actuaries in India for $15,000 and layoff my U.S. actuaries making $100,000 why wouldn't I do this? I'm sure there are good reasons, but I have yet to see anyone give them to me.
I know that comments on this topic are hard to find, hidden in a thread called "actuarial outsourcing"

http://actuary.ca/phpBB/viewtopic.ph...39&start=0

Quote:
Originally Posted by spotted cow
Westley,

This question is different than anything I have seen posted, which usually consit of whether acturial outcourcing is or isn't occurring.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-18-2004, 02:56 PM
spotted cow's Avatar
spotted cow spotted cow is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Down on the farm
Posts: 147
Default

Westley,

Thanks for the sarcasm, but neither you nor your hidden link has answered the question.

If I own an insurance company and there were a ton of talented and qualified actuaries in India making $15K, why wouldn't I lay off my $100K a year actuaries in the U.S.?

Westley, I'm sure if you respond it will be of no use, so I really hope someone else can provide some useful information. I have already been through this issue in my career, I hope you never have to.

Thanks to those with useful information.

SC
__________________
If you keep doing what you have always done, you will get what you always got.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-18-2004, 03:07 PM
Westley Westley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 27,664
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spotted cow
Thanks for the sarcasm, but neither you nor your hidden link has answered the question.
If you are not smart enough to see the answer right in front of your face, it's pretty likely that you can be easily outsourced. Doesn't answer your question, either, but you're too stupid to be worth my time.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
*PLEASE NOTE: Posts are not checked for accuracy, and do not
represent the views of the Actuarial Outpost or its sponsors.
Page generated in 0.51026 seconds with 7 queries